View Full Version : Why Did Malfoy Need Death Eaters?
Was there more to Malfoy's task from Voldermort than killing Dumbledore? He worked and worked to ensure the Death Eaters could get into the castle, yet when they did get in, none of them were allowed to kill Dumbledore, the one man kept saying that it was for Draco to do, until Snape got there, and Snape just did it.
If it was only to kill Dumbledore, and the ones who came in were not to step in, why would Draco have worked so hard to get them inside at all?
Two things come to mind for me, 1 being that they took Professor Trelawny, the other is that maybe Voldermort was testing Snape.
Can anyone else think of anything else it could be?
alohabear
24-08-2005, 15:53
Maybe it was to show the power of Voldermort. Because in the OotP, he saw Dumbledore's Army ... so he wanted to show he had an army too.
He needed the DE to keep the Order busy, and the other students. He could not have attacked Dumbledore without back up, especially seeing as his last two plans failed.
Also, he spent his time fixing the cabinet whilst trying to get Dumbledore, so DD was prolly supposed to be out of the way when the DE took the castle, and Voldemort probably would have followed to take over.
Sirius Potter Fan
24-08-2005, 19:14
That is a very good question really. When you think about it, Draco hadn't planned on Dumbledore being ill, and near death to begin with, he kinda "lucked out" on that one. When you think about it . . . do we actualy know for shure, just what his "assignment" was? I suppose his thinking may have been after the first two attempts failed. . . but then. . . He was working on the vanishing cabinent idea before school started. . .hmmm. I wonder. . .Draco made two attempts to kill Dumbledore that failed, by luck really, they very likely could have worked, so why the cabinent? Extra credit?
Fortescue
25-08-2005, 01:22
Everyone has always made such a big deal that Hogwarts was impenetrable. I think Voldemort simply wanted to prove otherwise. As for the mayhem the Death Eaters might have caused while there - I think they were pretty much given free reign to do what they wanted and could. Note the presence of Greyback - he was there for one reason and only one reason - to leave carnage in his wake. He even disgusted Draco. If they were there for a true attack on the castle, I guess I would have to ask - where was Bellatrix? I would think she would come to Draco's side if they had a true mission in the castle.
Maybe the other Death Eaters were simply a distraction to the Order for what really went on - if Trelawney is really gone from the school, it could be that was the purpose to storm the castle in that manner as Trelawney never seemed to leave the castle. Remember the darkness powder Draco used on Ginny and the others when the Death Eaters first came out of the Room of Requirements - a smoke screen possibly to cover up who was actually in the first wave of Death Eaters. If she was there, maybe that was Bellatrix's job and why we never saw her - she was sent to get Trelawney so Voldemort could finally hear the prophecy. I'll stop rambling now! :D
Hermione
25-08-2005, 04:15
He needed the death eaters. They were witnesses to tell Voldemort what happened. They also ensured Malfoy's escape, if he did manage to kill Dumbledore, would he have been allowed to leave the castle?
Remember the darkness powder Draco used on Ginny and the others when the Death Eaters first came out of the Room of Requirements - a smoke screen possibly to cover up who was actually in the first wave of Death Eaters.
You are exactly right that we do not know who all came in that night because of the darkness powder! We cannot be sure Voldermort didn't enter, and not leave.....or leave by the vanishing cabinet.
Did he want in The Chamber of Secrets, to get something, a horcrux? Or was there something in the Castle that he used, thinking that it would never be destroyed, something important, like The House Cup?
You are exactly right that we do not know who all came in that night because of the darkness powder! We cannot be sure Voldermort didn't enter, and not leave.....or leave by the vanishing cabinet.
Did he want in The Chamber of Secrets, to get something, a horcrux? Or was there something in the Castle that he used, thinking that it would never be destroyed, something important, like The House Cup?
Now that is an interesting point there ...
I think the smoke screen was just that - allowed Draco and the DE's to at least escape from the Room of Requirement before any kind of resistance could be formed.
I also like the point made about that they were there to test Snape - we know that Voldemort trusts no-one to any high degree - I don't think his trust in Snape was as iron clad as that of Dumbledore - Dumbledore had faith, Voldemort is suspicious and untrusting.
I think in essence they were there to back Draco up - but to also be there just in case he couldn't finish the job.
What I mean to say is that it was perhaps an extra bonus just in case Draco did manage to get Dumbledore in a position he could kill him - and then couldn't follow it through - in fact like the way it played out.
Draco was never going to strike at Dumbledore all the time they were alone - it required the presence of the Death Eaters just to get him semi-motivated again and even then under that pressure he still couldn't deliver - I have a feeling that will get back to Voldemort as well.
What if he hadn't actually made the seven yet? What if he sent someone to get Gryffindor's Sword? I know the Headmaster's office is well protected, but a student could have been spying on Harry and heard the password or something...
What if Voldemort did go into the castle? What if he made it all the way to the Chamber unseen and is still in there now, planning away with whatever else he has hidden in there? :eek:
:eek: Never thought of that!!! :eek:
Yeah you know - that would be a great diversion for Voldemort to slip in and do things in Hogwarts - most of all I like the fact he might have slipped back into the CoS!
The more I think about it the more I think you are all onto something here - I just assumed the DE's were there to assit and ensure that Draco did the job once he got into position - but I can see the opportunity there of creating a smokescreen - have all the school focused in one place while someone slipped off and did something else - even if they never did kill Dumbledore it would have been enough of a diversion to have another party do something else .. always bothered me why Bellatrix wasnt there!
Snuffles
26-08-2005, 15:50
After my long vacation, I finally return... :D
Okay. for the Voldemort-inside-the-castle thing.
I'm kind of skeptical of that one, although it is a good idea and a possibility.
If Voldemort was there to kill Dumbledore and/or just be inside the castle to break the ties within Hogwarts, why were Snape and Draco running away from the castle? Their "Dark Lord," or so they believe, is the most powerful wizard in the whole community. Voldemort might as well have taken the night for the turning point of his reign again. Yet he didn't.
For the original question, I think it was just the diversion so the Death Eaters could get in and help stop the Order, so Draco could do his job.
That is a very good question really. When you think about it, Draco hadn't planned on Dumbledore being ill, and near death to begin with, he kinda "lucked out" on that one.
That was precisely the feeling I was getting as I was reading this.
How on earth did Draco know that that night would be the fateful night when Dumbledore would go on search of the Horcrux? And even if he did, how did he know Dumbledore would return weakened? Was it just plain luck? :rolleyes:
Or could somebody have tipped him off that the "Horcrux" was a fake? If so, how?
You know - slight digression again - but makes you think of FF doesn't it - he did seem very lucky that night - he fixed the cabinet, managed to get to the tower and dissarm a Dumbledore that was weakened and ill ... wonder if he found some or stole some?
With regards to the aboce point - if Voldemort was in the CoS - he wouldnt want everyone knowing about it - he would probably be there to do a few things and then leave ... as such the less people that knew the better.
Draco and Snape would need to get out of Hogwarts now based on what happened - I dont think Voldemort wanted them drawing attentions to what he was doing ...
Fortescue
27-08-2005, 02:20
With regards to the aboce point - if Voldemort was in the CoS - he wouldnt want everyone knowing about it - he would probably be there to do a few things and then leave ... as such the less people that knew the better.
Draco and Snape would need to get out of Hogwarts now based on what happened - I dont think Voldemort wanted them drawing attentions to what he was doing ...
If Voldemort was in Hogwarts, wouldn't Harry know? His scar hasn't hurt him since the last time he was near Voldemort in the Ministry. If Voldemort had made it inside Hogwarts, Harry would have had the first pains in his scar in a year and I'm sure that would have sent red flags up considering what those pains always mean.
The most important thing is that we didn't see Bellatrix. I got from the reading of the chapter, Spinner's End, that Bellatrix was not one of Voldemort's favorite Death Eaters anymore either after what happened in the Ministry. She mentioned he had trusted her with his most precious...... By the way she said it, he no longer trusted her with much and I'm sure he would have sent her into the castle with Draco as she was surly being made to pay penance for what happened to the prophecy, just the same as Draco was being punished for Lucius's screw up.
If Voldemort was in Hogwarts, wouldn't Harry know? His scar hasn't hurt him since the last time he was near Voldemort in the Ministry. If Voldemort had made it inside Hogwarts, Harry would have had the first pains in his scar in a year and I'm sure that would have sent red flags up considering what those pains always mean.
Actually this could be another thread maybe - but I dont think Harry's scar hurts around him anymore - remember the reasons it hurt and also the reason it doesnt hurt now?
Voldemort knew from OoTP that Harry could sense him - he now blocks Harry out - kinda teasing him considering Harry cant do the same ;)
Off topic I know - but does anyone else agree that Voldemort can close that connection off now - it was all about emotion and not location was what I was left with in OoTP ... :confused:
Weasleyfanforever
27-09-2005, 10:55
You know - slight digression again - but makes you think of FF doesn't it - he did seem very lucky that night - he fixed the cabinet, managed to get to the tower and dissarm a Dumbledore that was weakened and ill ... wonder if he found some or stole some?Or had someone (that someone being Severus Snape) whip some up for him? Another possiblity being; look at the amount of money the Malfoys have. If Snape didn't make any, I'm sure that Draco could convince his mummy, who does know about the mission and will save her son by any means, to go find/buy some...
cagedcactus
12-09-2006, 05:01
Wow. really interesting discussion here.
You all miss Bella terribly, huh? :p
I think the whole thing about Draco being lucky that night is mind boggling.
He must have taken that luck potion.
I always thought that the D/Es were there to cause havoc. Not only they provided diversion for Draco, they proved that all protections on castle were not enough to stop them.
Voldemort thrives on threat and scary surprises. He wants to see people break under the thoughts of horror he will unleash. All the weak students with weak parents will be gone after this wreck.
I think Voldemort didnt want to Risk sending any important D/E s that night. Remember, Voldemort didnt know that DD would be that weak that night after coming back from cave. Voldemort would not risk his own appearance in Hogwarts while DD is still there. Although some thoughts about him sneaking in the COS sound extremely brilliant.
For him, Draco's mission was a hit or miss. If hit, great plus on his side. Which seems to have happened now.
I agree the DE's were more just pawns in the Voldemort game - he didnt send his top brass there and considering the task and scale, if Voldemort was really serious that he wanted to take Hogwarts that night we would have seen Bella as well ...
But then again - his top ranks are a little thin on the ground post OoTP/MoM attack ... perhaps they were the best he had!
But all the same I agree - from the start Bella/Narcissa say as much - Draco wasnt expected to succeed - it almost seemed like a diversion ... having DE's in the school would have gotten back to Dumbledore one way or another - perhaps the real idea was to keep Dumbledore 'entertained' while Voldemort and the A team did something else?
cagedcactus
18-09-2006, 04:30
I agree the DE's were more just pawns in the Voldemort game - he didnt send his top brass there and considering the task and scale, if Voldemort was really serious that he wanted to take Hogwarts that night we would have seen Bella as well ...
But then again - his top ranks are a little thin on the ground post OoTP/MoM attack ... perhaps they were the best he had!
But all the same I agree - from the start Bella/Narcissa say as much - Draco wasnt expected to succeed - it almost seemed like a diversion ... having DE's in the school would have gotten back to Dumbledore one way or another - perhaps the real idea was to keep Dumbledore 'entertained' while Voldemort and the A team did something else?
Hmmmm....
the idea seems extremely possible, and cant be ignored. I just have a feeling that it would be too brave for Voldemort to come to the castle while he is even thinner with his front line death eaters. Bella would have stayed with him, so that is why we didnt see her. Would Voldemort really risk the travel through cabinets?
For a man who thinks he is immortal - and maybe somewhat a little shaken to know exactly what that can mean - I think so yeah.
It's all about risk management - Dumbledore and Harry represent his clearest dangers so risking a little in the erradication of the ones that seem the most likely to bring about his downfall does seem plausible.
I know we have speculated elsewhere but the Sybil does still come to mind here - for someone desperate to hear the exact details of the prophecy and maybe a little information that will assist him fight the future - I think he might take that risk.
I have no foundation for any of that - so dont shoot!
I still do believe it may have been a diversion, part of a bigger plan - keep Dumbledore busy while he sets about doing something else ... with his A team!
SnapeLovesLily
23-09-2006, 01:28
I really like this thread.
I am all for Trelawny being kidnapped. It makes sense because we know she is the key to the prophecy and Voldy wants that bad. She may not be able to recall the prophecy, but were dealing with wizards here. Im sure they have the ability to get it. Bellatrix could have been in the dark helping kidnap Trelawny or she could have been with Narcissus Malfoy.
yarvelling
24-09-2006, 06:50
I really like the notion of Voldemort having entered Hogwarts and 'hiding out' in the CoS....
JKR has said before that events of the book CoS would prove important in the last part of the story; well, this could just be the reason! Also, Voldemort was very, very keen to get back into Hogwarts once he was an adult; if he couldn't do it through more seemingly legitimate methods - being a teacher, then finding a way of sneaking in unobserved would certainly serve his purpose!
Hogwarts would offer him protection and a large supply of both willing and unwilling subjects to bend to his will, and what better place, as magically powerful as the castle is, to make his fortress!
I would tend to agree - I still think that serves as the best possible location for the big ending - DoM and Godric's Hollow also figure in there ... but then Harry is going to GH at the start of the 7th book so would seem illogical (although where better to go than the start for the end!) and DoM, I still think he will go there ... yes Hogwarts & the CoS would be a fitting battlefield for the ending of the series ...
Anyways drifiting back to topic, is it possible Voldemort sacrificed some soilders as a means of concealment?
We know he didnt really expect Draco to succeed - perhaps he changed his mind once Draco proved he could setup the link and thus Voldemort was willing to throw a few more troops at the battle?
secret seeker
12-10-2006, 12:49
As for the D.Eaters being there, its pretty obvious that Tom riddle didnt trust Draco to finish off Albus, he was much too powerful for draco alone, and knew when the moment came he might bottle it. As Albus said "Killing is not nearly as easy as the innocent believe". Riddle wanted to make sure Draco/Snape wasnt overpowered, because then Snapes true identity would be exposed for nothing. I think the Death eaters served 2 purposes; 1; to support draco/Snape 2; fight the order of the pheonix. The "greatly increased security" at hogwarts was in the daily prophet at the start of H.B.P , so Riddle knew the Order were most likely there. As for Riddle or another death eater having another job to do while the order were distracted, I find it hard to accept, even doubtful, but then if Albus didnt need an invisibility cloak, why would Tom riddle? and there is no way of knowing what Jo may do.
i just had a fleeting thought that Draco's task was to actually kill Harry - why?
1. Because it makes more sense putting teen against teen, instead of teen against greatest wizard of all time.
2. Harry is the only thing that stands between Voldemort and ruling the wizarding world, because of the prophecy, and Voldemort knows that the Order are there to protect Harry from him, not from a fellow school student.
other reasons this could be true are
Draco would not hesitate to attack Harry, especially after the Sectumsempra incident.
Snape informed Dumbledore of this plan, and together they worked out a plan - like Dumbledore taking Harry with him on the night the attack was planned.
Draco taking the Felix Felicis, if he did in fact have some, led him right to Harry, but he just didn't know it. He was then left facing an ill Dumbledore, and was consodering killing him also. Snape did it after no doubt communicating with DD.
Remember the FF and how it led Harry, he just knew which way to go? It worked for Draco, but he was in shock and it probably wore off.
I think Draco planned to get the DE in to Hogwarts on his own. I am sure he thought of it by himself. He needed them there so he could get back out of Hogwarts.
secret seeker
12-10-2006, 20:29
Its very possible that Draco was ordered to kill Harry, but I think the appeal of finishing off Dumbledore was too great for Voldemort, and remember that Voldemort didnt actually expect Draco to succeed, he gave Draco the mission to punish Lucius for his failure at the ministry, and if Draco did possibly succeed, well, even better. Dumbledore was a thorn in Tom Riddles plans since he went to Hogwarts and i suspect Voldemort guessed that if anyone knew of his Horcruxes it would have been Dumbledore. So, its actually pretty clever when you think about it, 1; He can punish Lucius for his failure 2; Murder the only wizard Riddle ever feared 3; Murder the only wizard Voldemort would suspect of knowing about his horcruxes 4; Accomplish the unthinkable by getting D.E.s into Hogwarts (something nobody would expect) 5;Harry has no more people to stand in front of him. AND dont forget Snape said when Alecto used the cruciatus curse on him at the end "NO!..Potter belongs to the dark lord, leave him.."
secret seeker - your last comment is my reason I wouldnt think Voldemort's plan was to have Draco kill Harry - because the prophecy says one must die at the hands of the other - Voldemort has lived that prophecy since he got wind of it - Snape confirmed it - Harry is most definetly the Dark Lords to kill!
secret seeker
19-10-2006, 17:18
Exactly, and, if Tom riddle did want Draco to fiinish off Harry he had loads of oppurtunity to do it. He could have imperised? another student to give Harry the necklace for instance, and a duel to the death woludnt go unnoticed so a stealth kill would have been Dracos only option and he had plenty of chances to do that.
nymphadora
19-10-2006, 19:05
I agree, I don't believe the mission was for Draco to kill Harry. But if Voldemort really didn't expect Draco to kill DD, what was the purpose of sending him. Was it really just to get back at the Malfoy family for Lucius' mistake? Or was there something more to it? Why did it have to be Draco? I'm also thinking that the only reason that Draco needed the DE was both for back up and to distract the Order, also someone needed to set off the Dark Mark that brought DD back to the castle in such a hurry. It also makes total sense that Voldemort wanted to show that the castle wasn't as tightly secured as DD thought. I'm actually very impressed with how Draco got the DE into the school. That took some very deep thought and a good memory. It just proves that Draco is not stupid, but we know that he does not have the heart of a killer.
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